Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

create pages with buttons to trigger scenes

Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby support » 20 February 2019, 19:43

Regarding the BPM, and considering for this example that the BPM is 120
The software is presently able to do this: 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/8.
1/1 means one step is triggered every 0,5 second
1/2 means one step is triggered every 1 second
1/8 means one step is triggered every 4 second
Requirement #1
1/16, 1/32, 1/64
1/64 means one step is triggered every 32 second
Can you please confirm you need this ?
Requirement #2
2/1, 4/1
2/1 means one step is triggered every 0,25 second
4/1 means one step is triggered every 0,125 second
Can you please confirm you would like this ?
BUT, regarding the last option (4/1), it is technically not possible for the timers of the software to be so accurate.
The minimum duration between two steps is 0,05 second. So we could do only this:
4/1 gives step#1 is triggered at time 0,1s, step#2 is triggered at time 0,25s, step#3 is triggered at time 0,4s, step#4 is triggered at time 0,5s
Could you please confirm you understand the technical limits of the software ?
Could you please confirm this solution would be acceptable for you ?


Regarding the Beat
The software is presently able to do this: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/8.
There should be no problem to add 1/16, 1/32, 1/64.
BUT so far, 2/1, 4/1 makes no sense, because the Beat must stop when there is no trigger.
Could you please confirm you agree with us, so you do not ask for 2/1 and 4/1 for the Beat ?
If you do not agree with us, please explain.


Note
For requirement #1 and #2, if possible (for our understanding) please give us an easy example of application (fast shutter, slow color change, ...).
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby Pitwipe » 21 February 2019, 06:16

Your post appears to be in two sections: One for BPM Trigger and one for Beat Trigger. I may not have been clear but my particular suggestion was only for the Beat Trigger, not the BPM trigger directly.

Requirement #2
2/1, 4/1
2/1 means one step is triggered every 0,25 second
4/1 means one step is triggered every 0,125 second
Can you please confirm you would like this ?
BUT, regarding the last option (4/1), it is technically not possible for the timers of the software to be so accurate.
The minimum duration between two steps is 0,05 second. So we could do only this:
4/1 gives step#1 is triggered at time 0,1s, step#2 is triggered at time 0,25s, step#3 is triggered at time 0,4s, step#4 is triggered at time 0,5s
Could you please confirm you understand the technical limits of the software ?
Could you please confirm this solution would be acceptable for you ?


Regarding the Beat
The software is presently able to do this: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/8.
There should be no problem to add 1/16, 1/32, 1/64.
BUT so far, 2/1, 4/1 makes no sense, because the Beat must stop when there is no trigger.
Could you please confirm you agree with us, so you do not ask for 2/1 and 4/1 for the Beat ?
If you do not agree with us, please explain.


I believe I have a general understanding of the timing limitations to which you refer although the timings in the second sentence below were not clear to me. I do see how 4/1 Beat Trigger in a 4/4 time signature triggering on every quarter note would face the technical limitation but my issue is that all the triggers end up "1/2 time" anyway because they are triggered only by the kick (1/2 notes) so in that instance a 4/1 Beat Trigger would work. I see these settings very useful under specific circumstances.

The minimum duration between two steps is 0,05 second. So we could do only this:
4/1 gives step#1 is triggered at time 0,1s, step#2 is triggered at time 0,25s, step#3 is triggered at time 0,4s, step#4 is triggered at time 0,5s


In any case look at the values in the spreadsheet below and see if they appear sane to you.

--

LIMITATION
Today only one midi note number can trigger the "beat trigger" (i.e. MIDI NOTE 36 = Kick drum)

GOAL
ShowXpress to calculate and echo MIDI notes from BEAT TRIGGER *based on the current BPM* to advance steps in a scene (and echoes will approximate current BPM)

SUMMARY (Note: Echoing MIDI notes is probably not technically required to advance steps but that's how I was thinking of it. If we get to the desired result it matters not how we get there.)
2/1 = ShowXpress "Echoes" MIDI Note @ quarter note #ms rate for every "Beat Trigger"
4/1 = ShowXpress "Echoes" MIDI Note @ eigth note #ms rate for every "Beat Trigger"

DESCRIPTION : MIDI Beat Triggers. "Echo" delay times are calculated based on the current BPM.
- 4/1, (1)E-Drum Hit = (4) MIDI Notes Sent = Steps 1,2,3,4 in Scene are played. (THREE "echoed" MIDI notes are generated to advance step(s) (2,3,4) from only one note physically played)
- 2/1, (1)E-Drum Hit = (2) MIDI Notes Sent = Steps 1,2 in Scene are played. (ONE "echoed" MIDI note is generated to advance step from only one note physically played)
- 1/1, (1)E-Drum Hit = (1) MIDI Note Sent = Step 1 in Scene is played. Step in scene advances EVERY MIDI note played
- 1/2, (1)E-Drum Hit = (1) MIDI Note Sent = Step 1 in Scene is played. Step in scene advances every OTHER MIDI note played
- 1/3, (1)E-Drum Hit = (1) MIDI Note Sent = Step 1 in Scene is played. Step in scene advances every THIRD MIDI note played

ASSUMPTIONS FOR SPREADSHEET BELOW
- Song Time signature 4/4, BPM=120 [If BPM=120 quarter note = .50ms delay, Eight note =.25ms delay)
- Scene in ShowXpress has 4 steps (1)Blue, (2)White, (3)Blue, (4) White
- Drum part is quarter notes (Kick/Snare/Kick/Snare)=(1/2/3/4) but can only trigger on beat 1 & 3 (Kick Drum)

This was somewhat difficult to convey in words but when sitting down with a drum machine and using MIDI to trigger ShowXpress scenes the issue becomes more readily apparent. I've created a spreadsheet to help clarify: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

NOTES
You can change the BPM in spreadsheet to reflect new (ms) rates to match tempo. (Approx.)
I think it might also be of value if multiple MIDI notes could be "heard" by the "Beat Trigger" (Kick= MIDI #36, Snare=MIDI #38, etc) as per this request: https://thelightingcontroller.com/viewt ... =76&t=6127
I think in a perfect world the new Beat Triggers above in addition to having multiple MIDI notes to trip the "beat trigger" would provide a great deal of flexibility.

Imagine electing to set a beat trigger listening to two MIDI notes on a straight (drum beat) scene with Kick/Snare/Kick/Snare and routing the velocity information from each MIDI hit to the dimmers of selected fixtures so they are 1) in time and 2) adjusting intensity based on how hard the trigger is hit? Probably have to adjust with strength curves...but.. good times.

Thanks for entertaining these ideas.
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby Pitwipe » 21 February 2019, 15:40

After re-reading this I believe I understand your intention now. I was thinking the delay between each interval as opposed to delay from 1st beat. At the end of the day I think we are referring to the same idea.

4/1 gives step#1 is triggered at time 0,1s, step#2 is triggered at time 0,25s, step#3 is triggered at time 0,4s, step#4 is triggered at time 0,5s


I updated spreadsheet from

1
2 .250
3 .250
4 .250

to

1
2 .250
3 .500
4 .750
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby muscanto » 21 February 2019, 17:14

I see there is certainly a confusion between 16/1 and 1/16.

I want to see 1/16 and 1/32. Should not be technical limitation to doing this.

Step changes after 16 clicks/32 clicks.
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby muscanto » 31 March 2019, 04:01

Hi Support-

Just following up on this. I could really use 1/16 and 1/32 in the speed properties. Any chance of seeing that soon?

Thanks!
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby support » 31 March 2019, 15:56

1/16 and 1/32 is quite easy to do.
But we would like to clean up the "Requirement #2", in order to upgrade that function in one shot.
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby muscanto » 01 April 2019, 14:38

If you are able to accomplish requirement #2, that would be fantastic. I work around this by sending MIDI to the BEAT using 1/8 notes. So I can set the speed properties to 1/1 and 1/2 to accomplish the same thing.

Thank you in advanced for your efforts on this.
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby support » 01 April 2019, 15:58

We presently do not understand 100%.
We are looking for answers of our questions (in blue color) for "requirement2" and "Beat".
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby muscanto » 01 April 2019, 16:56

I do not need 2/1 or 4/1 for any of the scenarios. (requirement 1, 2 or beat) If I need the speed to be more frequent then 1:1 BPM like 2/1 or 4/1, I would send 1/4 notes or 1/8 notes to the software instead.

I do however want to see both 1/16 and 1/32 in both BPM and Beat. It sounds like they are both easy updates?
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Re: Question regarding 'BPM speed' requirement

Postby Pitwipe » 02 April 2019, 02:46

Support,

With regard to this:

Regarding the Beat
The software is presently able to do this: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/8.
There should be no problem to add 1/16, 1/32, 1/64.
BUT so far, 2/1, 4/1 makes no sense, because the Beat must stop when there is no trigger.
Could you please confirm you agree with us, so you do not ask for 2/1 and 4/1 for the Beat ?
If you do not agree with us, please explain.


You recently replied:

We presently do not understand 100%.
We are looking for answers of our questions (in blue color) for "requirement2" and "Beat".


Was this not answered in this response?
https://thelightingcontroller.com/viewt ... 129#p25009
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