Fading scenes within a macro button

create pages with buttons to trigger scenes

Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Robin_D » 23 February 2018, 20:49

Hi again.

I'm stumped again. School stage show goes up Monday night. I thought I could use sequential list to just run it from 'Go' button, but I can't find anyway of selecting scenes into seq list macros with the ability to vary intensities.

I've therefore decided to revert to using buttons for each scene in the show (about 40 I think) but with a full stage to light and almost 50 fixtures with a rough 50:50 mix of generics on dimmers and LED RGB PAR's. So approaching 300 DMX channels. However I've now found a snag with that... mainly on the generics. A steps scene is no use as it steps through it, whereas I need CCT spot 1 and 2 at 255, and Fres 5 and 7 at 180, and floods 1 thro 6 at 75. They all need to come on together and go off together at that level. On a traditional desk I would have created a scene on a desk and dropped it onto any one of a number of sub-masters (often on multiple pages) so a student could control the overall level of that scene. My APC mini only has a limited number of faders and I believe ShowXpress only allows 8 masters. I expected to be able to set a slider on each scene I'd set and then bring them into a macro button, but I discovered that I can't do this on a single step scene as the slider controls the steps not the intensity. It also appears I cannot apply a slider to a macro button, or at least its not in the list. So in effect I think I have to create a single step scene for,
[list=]
[*]every lantern,
[*]for every likely dimmer level, [/list]
.... unless I can put it on a master.
For the LED's it appears I need a steps scene for every colour and intensity option, all multiplied by the fact that I need to control stage_right, stage_centre, stage_left and stage_wide, plus of course going up and downstage as well. I already have a long list of scenes that become too difficult to locate in the list, but this is going to explode into the 100's. As I need to maintain an overall master for blackouts (blackout button as per the recent thread kills my back stage blues plunging the cast into darkness) and another for lighting the band, I'm limited to 6 intensity controllable scenes ..... unless I've missed something. I've been back through Darren's video's but all it seems to do is to confirm my worst fears.

Any suggestions please? At present I think the task is too big to complete this weekend. I can't get back onto the rig until Monday 1pm with the show at 7pm. 3D view helps a bit but doesn't really cut the mustard when a director is asking to 'reduce the level of lighting upstage and add a bit of red' as the colours on screen don't mach reality, not do the number of available generic's really help because actual beam angles and power differ vastly from the available options.

Thanks in advance .... Robin
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby support » 23 February 2018, 22:36

Sorry but we do not understand your question.
FYI: https://thelightingcontroller.com/viewt ... ?f=3&t=203
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Robin_D » 24 February 2018, 10:31

Oh dear. Let me be a little more succinct.

This first paragraph is to be clear on my terminology. By 'intensity' I mean how bright the lights in a scene are. By 'fader' I mean a device, physical or virtual that allows that control. By #DMX I mean the DMX value for the intensity of that channel or scene. Happy to use percent if that's easier, but I can't see any reference to percentage values in relation to ShowXpress. By 'scene' I refer to a steps or generator scene

So I need to be able to use EITHER:
- A Sequential List with macro's containing all the scenes in it but be able to set the individual intensity of each of the scenes within the macro without having to create a scene at each intensity. For example: I have scene on stage that has three of my preset scenes in it. Red_Chase_DSC {Generator}, Centre_Floods {Steps} and Jail_Backlight {Steps} in it. I need to set the intensity of each of those as follows:

Red_Chase_DSC @ #DMX = 208,
Centre_Floods @ #DMX = 160,
Jail_Backlight @ #DMX = 255.

Question 1. How do I adjust the intensity of a scenes within a macro scene. Do I really need to create a separate scenes at each intensity I need?
Question 2. Can I more easily set the intensity of Generator scenes other than moving the points nearer or further from the centre of the colour wheel and saving as another scene?

I then need to fade that whole scene twice. Once to a lower level (Say to roughly 60% of the start value) and then again to blackout before calling the next scene. Ideally want to do that using a fader of some description. The final fade to BO I can do by inserting a blackout scene as the next item in Seq list and and using the fade options. However to do the first fade I think the only way is to create a second set of Gold_DSC, Centre_Floods and Jail_Backlight scenes at the lower intensities and create a second Macro to put them in with.

OR

- Using Buttons, set up Macro button over which I have control of intensity of the whole scene using a virtual fader on the button and for six of those using a master fader on my Akai APC Mini. Unless that is, I can set up layers of master faders, but all my research indicates I cannot have more than eight master faders
Question 3. Can I set up layers of master faders? All my research indicates I cannot have more than eight but please confirm. Ideally hit a button on the APC to select layer and then use that faders for that layer.
I need to be able to flex the intensity of scenes live, otherwise it seems I have to create a separate scene for every level that I need and switch between them with all the problems highlighted in Seq lists above.

Hopefully this is clearer now.

best wishes ..... Robin
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Stilli » 25 February 2018, 15:00

I am just a beginner here so please ignore my post if it's inappropriate but ....

The alternative to adjusting 'intensity' within a scene would be to use the master faders to control your fixtures. You could set each fader to control a group of fixtures and are limited to 8 faders which gives you access to 8 groups of fixtures. Fixture control can be accessed by more than one Master dimmer so a fixture could be included in more than one group, it may be that you could organize up to 8 groups which will fulfill your needs. It gets a bit tricky if you are using a dimmer on a group that affects fixtures in the next scene but you may work a way around this with the organizing of the groups, it's a bit more hands on but may solve your problem and obviously depends on whether or not you are already using the master dimmers for control elsewhere in the show.
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Robin_D » 25 February 2018, 17:07

Thanks for the reply @Stilli.

Yes I was already using, (or attempting to use :-) ) four of the master faders leaving me with just four to play with. However, after spending all last evening on 3D view and then going in to the live rig this at 9:30 this morning with another tech, we conclude the software is not fit for purpose, or there is a problem with my Chauvet Xpress 512.

After 5 hours we gave up and have reverted to the Showtec Scenesetter board that belongs to the school. This had/has a number of consequences not least is that we had to bring in a flown truss (chain winches) and reset all the DMX addresses to get under with the 48 the Showtec supports, plus repatch a number of dimmer channels to suit. I've lost a huge amount of flexibility as even using all LED's in 3 channel mode, I've had to pair and quad group units onto the same DMX addresses. Unfortunately 50% of the dimmers are hard wired to bars (no patch) that we are not using so we are 11 of the the first 24 channels out of use. However, we have a show.

The issue that killed us was with buttons and master dimmers. The buttons had an S in the top left, yet neither the page or the buttons were set to solo/release all buttons. One of the buttons and faders controlled a warm RGB mix onto the band, another button had the back stage blues on it with 'auto start' and 'release all buttons exclusion'. The third started the mirror ball and two spots. All worked fine on their own, but every time the band lighting, or the mirror ball was started, the blues went off. Hitting the 'blues on' button killed the mirror-ball and spots and turned the band bright green! OK, hitting the 'band' button twice restored the correct settings, but the 'always on' back stage blues also needed restarting after every scene change. I did find this https://thelightingcontroller.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1328&p=5587&hilit=Most+buttons+solo#p5587 post that seems to indicate that every scene needs everything in it. What a painful way to code.

Time to invest in a proper system I think. Disappointing when Sweetlight website claims its 'Pro' lighting and suitable for theatre.
This is lighting desk for theater.
.

Oh... and yes, the DMX lines are properly terminated and DMX spec cables used throughout.
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Pink LD » 25 February 2018, 23:25

Unfortunately you expected to get out of the software a modestly complicated rig, but with only modest experience in general, and even less with the software.

There are plenty of things you can do with this software, but you really need to know your way around it. I am sorry you had this experience, but it seems too short a time frame to wrangle your rig from scratch and put in the complexity you are looking for.
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby SeekLighting » 26 February 2018, 00:51

Robin_D wrote:Thanks for the reply @Stilli.

Yes I was already using, (or attempting to use :-) ) four of the master faders leaving me with just four to play with. However, after spending all last evening on 3D view and then going in to the live rig this at 9:30 this morning with another tech, we conclude the software is not fit for purpose, or there is a problem with my Chauvet Xpress 512.

After 5 hours we gave up and have reverted to the Showtec Scenesetter board that belongs to the school. This had/has a number of consequences not least is that we had to bring in a flown truss (chain winches) and reset all the DMX addresses to get under with the 48 the Showtec supports, plus repatch a number of dimmer channels to suit. I've lost a huge amount of flexibility as even using all LED's in 3 channel mode, I've had to pair and quad group units onto the same DMX addresses. Unfortunately 50% of the dimmers are hard wired to bars (no patch) that we are not using so we are 11 of the the first 24 channels out of use. However, we have a show.

The issue that killed us was with buttons and master dimmers. The buttons had an S in the top left, yet neither the page or the buttons were set to solo/release all buttons. One of the buttons and faders controlled a warm RGB mix onto the band, another button had the back stage blues on it with 'auto start' and 'release all buttons exclusion'. The third started the mirror ball and two spots. All worked fine on their own, but every time the band lighting, or the mirror ball was started, the blues went off. Hitting the 'blues on' button killed the mirror-ball and spots and turned the band bright green! OK, hitting the 'band' button twice restored the correct settings, but the 'always on' back stage blues also needed restarting after every scene change. I did find this https://thelightingcontroller.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1328&p=5587&hilit=Most+buttons+solo#p5587 post that seems to indicate that every scene needs everything in it. What a painful way to code.

Time to invest in a proper system I think. Disappointing when Sweetlight website claims its 'Pro' lighting and suitable for theatre.
This is lighting desk for theater.
.

Oh... and yes, the DMX lines are properly terminated and DMX spec cables used throughout.


Hi Robin,

I have to unfortunately agree with Pink LD here. I've used ShowXpress successfully before on very large shows, with two full universes of fixtures, for international touring bands, corporate events, theatre, audiences of over 1500 people, etc. at a variety of different venues. While ShowXpress is not considered a "Pro" lighting control option by most (certainly compared to other desks like GrandMA or Hog), it's getting there. I think if the programmers put their efforts towards a few small gripes and limitations of the software (limitations which those consoles I mention above don't have) and stop focusing on placating DJs, it could be up to scratch with the big boys very quickly. If the programmers did that, plus expanded the possible number of universes to 16, allowed video files to be used in Pixels mode, allowed for far more options in generator, and cleaned up the Sequential List function a bit, they'd be competing with Hog or Clarity easily.

However I'd still like to help you out here. The issue you're having sounds like a problem to do with the way you have programmed your scenes or laid out your buttons. The issue you speak about specifically relating to pressing a button to activate a scene, and that thereby causing another fixture to perform an undesired function is a problem that a lot of users experience when not correctly disabling channels in Steps mode when creating scenes. I might upload a video to demonstrate. I also believe you are having some confusion with the way to use solo buttons. I'll see if I can address this problem as well.
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Pink LD » 26 February 2018, 01:17

If I wasn't on a run, in the middle of a show call I'd be more directly helpful. However TimH expanded on all points brought up here and seems tp be in a better position to help.
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby SeekLighting » 26 February 2018, 01:47

Hi Robin,

https://youtu.be/oxXv8N2TJDY

Hope that helps!

Regards,

Tim H
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Re: Fading scenes within a macro button

Postby Stilli » 26 February 2018, 11:13

TimH wrote:Hi Robin,

https://youtu.be/oxXv8N2TJDY

Hope that helps!

Regards,

Tim H


Great vid Tim, I learnt some tricks there too. Thanks for taking the time to post.
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