Epsilon - DuoBeam Bar

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Epsilon - DuoBeam Bar

Postby Nelsound » 22 December 2018, 04:27

I am not sure if these can be portrayed accurately or at all in the 3D view. I tried the multiple head option and it shows up that way when choosing fixtures in the 3D view, but what I see in the 3D view makes no sense.
It shows multiple heads tied together across the stage. (Ex. 1 fixture far stage right, the next 2 spread out evenly about 15% towards stage left, and the next far stage left. Being tied together I can move them collectively maybe half way across the screen. There is no independent control over any of them, they all turn on and off at once).

I purchased another Xpress 512 box just for these lights because they use 16 channels each, (I passed the 512 channel quota). I am hoping there is more control than I am getting over these things. See what you can do with them.

The following link is to my Google Drive, it should take you directly to the manual. If not, I also uploaded it as a .zip file via the "upload attachment" tab.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DqVxw ... ilKDbCVOE0

I tried to upload the manual but no matter what I do it says the file is too big. I hope the link to my Google drive works for you even though it is out of the scope of your posted instructions. If not, please advise.

Thank you very much.
Ted Nelson
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Re: Epsilon DuoBeam Bar

Postby SeekLighting » 22 December 2018, 14:02

Hey mate, sounds like 2 issues there.

One issue is that you haven't got the fixtures arranged properly in 3d view. The multi-head fixture function does create multiple moving head objects in 3D view, however as you've noted, by default the objects are quite far apart. You need to rearrange them manually. In order to control the position of each object separately you need to uncheck the "auto select multi-heads" option, which will then allow you to move the two heads right next to each other, to resemble more closely the real life fixture. Please let me know if that explanation is clear enough for you

The second issue relates to the part where you said the lights all turn on and off the same. For that, the programmers should be able to create a better fixture profile for you that will work better.
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Re: Epsilon DuoBeam Bar

Postby Nelsound » 23 December 2018, 03:09

You mention the "multi-head fixture function", where is located? I am assuming that you do not mean the "auto select multi heads" option in the 3D view. And when you say "the multi-head fixture function does create multiple moving head objects in 3D view", should I be able to see the configuration of this fixture? (2 groups of four)

What I am seeing is that un-checking the auto select did allow me to move the single lights individually, but when I use the X fader, only one of them move. Also, there is a snap to grid behavior I cannot seem to get around. No big deal on this but it won't allow me to align them evenly.

Also, I have been trying to look at other profiles of similar lights in your library to see how they are configured and it seems that the icon selection, (red dot for red, lighting for strobe, etc.), is different than when I am trying to create a custom fixture, both on the channels and levels section of the edit fixture window.

Also again, which icon(s) can be used on this Duo Bar for the eight independent lights? If I leave them blank, (which puts a question mark on the operating channel), they all move at once. The best I could come up with is using 4 color icons and there sub color icons, which gives me my eight independent channels, but they start strobing when I turn any one of them on.

I know you mentioned the programmers addressing some of these issues but, I mentioned all the above symptoms cause they seem to effect each other in strange ways.

I apologize for the hassle. I am usually pretty good at this stuff. I need to get all this behind me before NAMM because I intend on expanding my arsenal of lights to be a major contender in this area, to do so one needs to understand it first. Thank you again for your help
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Re: Epsilon DuoBeam Bar

Postby Nelsound » 23 December 2018, 03:14

An addendum to make clear on one statement:

In the second paragraph I said "but when I use the X fader, only one of them move." I meant that only 1 of the single lights move, (not the whole bar with four lights), the other 7 do not.
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Re: Epsilon DuoBeam Bar

Postby SeekLighting » 23 December 2018, 11:41

Hey mate,

Alright I've just taken a look at your manual and the fixture online.

I point you to the post I made in this thread: https://thelightingcontroller.com/viewt ... =13&t=5781

Basically, the weird effect light nature of this fixture means you will never get it to display perfectly correctly in 3D view.

Since the fixture appears to be two separately controlled groups of 4 "heads", the best representation you will be able to achieve for this fixture in 3D view is two separately controlled moving heads.

Nelsound wrote:You mention the "multi-head fixture function", where is located? I am assuming that you do not mean the "auto select multi heads" option in the 3D view. And when you say "the multi-head fixture function does create multiple moving head objects in 3D view", should I be able to see the configuration of this fixture? (2 groups of four)


Yes I mean the auto select multi heads function. That will allow you to physically place the two lights closer together in 3D view. Place them right next to eachother in the 3D view and you'll get something like what you're looking for.

Nelsound wrote: Also, there is a snap to grid behavior I cannot seem to get around. No big deal on this but it won't allow me to align them evenly.


I have never had this problem before. Please refer to this video where I demonstrate using multi-head objects in 3D view to create what is essentially one big fixture. I can place the lights close together just fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f58iumJBRng

Just as a note, I made this video to help another user on the forum with a different problem, but it still relates to what we're talking about here. So when I'm talking in the video, I'm addressing their original problem.


Nelsound wrote: What I am seeing is that un-checking the auto select did allow me to move the single lights individually, but when I use the X fader, only one of them move.

Also again, which icon(s) can be used on this Duo Bar for the eight independent lights? If I leave them blank, (which puts a question mark on the operating channel), they all move at once. The best I could come up with is using 4 color icons and there sub color icons, which gives me my eight independent channels, but they start strobing when I turn any one of them on.


So this is all due in part to the fact that by looking at this fixture manual, 1) it is not very detailed and 2) the fixture profile is extremely unusual (again refer to my other post in the forum I linked to above). This means that you will sometimes get the "?" when trying to make very unusual channels.

Just to clarify, a more detailed manual would look something more like this: https://www.robe.cz/index.php?type=1089 ... Spikie.pdf. These sorts of more professional fixtures provide much more detail, and also have more conventional fixture profiles. Cheaper lights like the one you have there unfortunately often provide very vague (in some cases, incomplete) manuals, which makes making fixture profiles very difficult.

Also to clarify, despite the "?" symbols, and the fixture not functioning properly in 3D View, the fixture should still behave exactly as desired in real life, even if it doesn't match up with 3D View.

Support should upload their attempt at the file soon. But again as I said, there is no guarantee it will behave as expected in 3D View due to its extremely unusual nature.
Last edited by SeekLighting on 23 December 2018, 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Epsilon DuoBeam Bar

Postby SeekLighting » 23 December 2018, 11:46

Having a further look at the manual, there is also a problem due to a current software limitation relating to multi-head fixtures.

Channel 1 controls the Tilt of lights 1-4
Channel 3 controls the Tilt of lights 5-8

However, the intensity of each light is individually controlled on channels 5-12.

This represents a limitation of the software. At present, a channel can only control:
1) all lights in the fixture
2) an individual light in the fixture

It cannot control both IN 3D View. It will still control the light in real life just fine.

I have previously posted asking support to add the feature to be able to choose for a channel to control multiple heads, but not all. Hopefully they see this and are able to implement a feature like such in future.

Please note this sort of multi-head support is very new to the 3D view engine so we are still working through the kinks.
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Re: Epsilon DuoBeam Bar

Postby support » 25 December 2018, 19:00

Done.
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